Walling Tips and Tricks

For discussing walling related subjects not included in other headings.

batter frames

Postby Jayt » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:50 pm

oh no they shouldn't (has the panto season finished?) :D
User avatar
Jayt
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: county durham

Postby Shirley M Addy » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:26 pm

I agree with Tracey's view that it'd be lunacy to throw batter frames away. I can remember one loon who did not use one or pins and string with the result he asked me to rebuild some of his convex and concave sections. Using one's eyes is very well but are not infallible especially over longer sections and string and pins/frames are invaluable even as a backup to one's vision.
User avatar
Shirley M Addy
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: Ribble Valley

Postby Tracey B » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:09 pm

Jay, just to clarify....shouldn't use them, or shouldn't throw them away?
User avatar
Tracey B
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Postby Jayt » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:16 pm

What ever floats the persons boat I reckon Tracey, to have batter frames, or not to have batter frames that is the question (may Shakespeare forgive me).
Jay T :D
User avatar
Jayt
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: county durham

Postby jerryg » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:27 pm

I am not trying to be controversial or anything else you want to call it.
The question asked for time saving techniques. I save a lot of time not bothering with batter frames.

I don't know about you lot, but I can build a dead straight perfectly battered wall any where any time without resorting to a batter frame. All I do is to use a stringline to line my foundations and the rest follows perfectly.

There are a lot of places that batter frames are useless, ie steep mountain walls, crossing bedrock, lumpy ground, trees getting in the way, etc etc.

Of course if you only ever build dead staight walls across flat fields or in gardens then do what you like.

And also I hope all your batter frames are properly adjustable because most walls have a different batter on one side to the other. Indeed building a wall across a steep slope then the up side should be near on vertical, with more batter on the down side. Also a lot of walls have one side higher than the other. In all these situations I can happily just get on with it.

As regards as least one persons comments on this subject I observed their wallbuilding skills where the batter frames being used in no way resembled the shape of the wall.
User avatar
jerryg
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Lake District

Postby Tracey B » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:49 pm

Agreed Jerry....wooden batter frames have grave limitations and so I've never made one. A pair of steel reinforcing bars and a wooden clamp or encapsulator to hold them and set the width at the top of the A are sufficiently versatile to adapt to any situation.
User avatar
Tracey B
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Postby Tracey B » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:55 pm

PS to Jerry. I have given this some thought while I cooked and ate my tea! It isn't how you maintain the line and batter of the wall that baffles me, but how you keep the height just right on ground that is very undulating...unless you are building in very short stints. You know, that chinese dragon effect of it rising and falling with the land that we all know and love so well? Please enlighten me as I don't have the benefit of 30 odd years experience in the trade. Cheers. Tracey.
User avatar
Tracey B
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Postby Jayt » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:40 pm

It might be that I am tired after digging out 10m of Gorse bush and roots (mining would be a better descriptive word), and building todays quota of wall, or it might be that I am just stupid, but I dont understand that last question Tracey.
Please explain it in simple terms.
Cheers JayT
User avatar
Jayt
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: county durham

Postby Andy C » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:39 pm

if your digging out 10 metres of gorse bush like you said mining would be a better word i hope your not on a metre rate
Andy C
Regular Subscriber
Regular Subscriber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:14 am

Postby Jayt » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:09 pm

Jerry wrote this earlier
As regards as least one persons comments on this subject I observed their wallbuilding skills where the batter frames being used in no way resembled the shape of the wall.

have you been spying on me jerry? :D
In answer to your question Andy, unfortunately yes metre rate applies, its a stewardship wall.
JayT
User avatar
Jayt
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: county durham

Postby jerryg » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:34 pm

[quote="Tracey B"]PS to Jerry. but how you keep the height just right on ground that is very undulating...

I stand next to the wall and use the various parts of my body to judge the height, ie tit height,(1.3metre) shoulder height,(1.5m) eyeballs (1.7m).

when I get to the right height I stop building, therefore as the ground goes up and down so does my wall. Sometimes of course if the undulations are very small these can be ironed out, but generally height always follows ground level.

I also only ever wall in horizontal coursing going uphill, what ever the stone. This might mean that sometimes I am walling one way uphill and then as the ground drops off I turn around and wall the other way.

Of course as I get older and start to wither away I'll have to get some heels to maintain my height :D
User avatar
jerryg
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Lake District

Tips 'n tricks

Postby david perry » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Just to be boring and get back on tips etc.,

When I lived in Yorkshire t'old gentleman what taught me basics like , used to hold his string tight and in tension - with some elastic of some kind at one end of the string. Can't remember exactly what but probably luggage ties, or perhaps a loop of elasticated rope of the type you can pick up from yacht chandlers. It meant he never had to keep tightening string when you knocked it putting stones in place.

Of course I can't join in debate on whether you should (or should not) use batter frames 'cos here in SW Eire we don't ave nay batter ont walls. Tawd walls here are almost always built with vertical sides. No one uses owt to keep em straight - just eye like. :wink:

But:::-- I have worked with a group of wallers (well they did house fronts and concrete mortared stone) They used to use spirit levels to keep the stones level when placing them. Something I admit to using now and again when its difficult to eye them in. :roll:
I just like stone!!

Click the globe in the bottom right corner to see my blogg
User avatar
david perry
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:22 pm
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire

Postby stonewaller » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:19 pm

Thought I ought to chuck in my sixpenneth worth....

I don`t use frames but I almost always use profile bars, hence I can set them for any batter, width, slope or whatever.

I work on 10m lengths it takes less than half an hour to set up a difficult strretch. I only have to set them once or twice a week. Lines are moved up 4 or 5 times at 5 minutes or so a time. NOt sure how any of this is time consuming.

I can see how worry about building to the line might slow someone but I think I probably wall faster with the lines in place because I`m fussy I`m forever checking the line when I wall without 'frames'. As it is the lines there so I know the stones right and just get on wth the next one.

The line is a guide, an aid it isn`t entirely prescriptive. a problem many trainees seem to have difficulty grasping unless they ignore the line altogether. If the stoen is a sixteentth of an inch out I`m not bothered, eigth of an inch I`d worry about it! :wink:

Some of the best wallers I`ve met do not use lines they have "the eye". But this is a rare quality especially amongst beginners and I`d be concerned that until they have a modicum of skill learners would literally be all over the place.

Sean
stonewaller
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:03 am
Location: North Wales

Batter frames

Postby ProDyker » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Batter frames can be used in most terrains,ie uneven ground ,bed rock(must be good re-bar to batter into bed rock).When it comes to keeping a long rebuild straight they are invaluable. keeping string lines taught is much easier, metal pins tend to move. Wallers, Dykers have used batter frames for generations.
Body parts for getting the height of a dyke?
ProDyker
Regular Subscriber
Regular Subscriber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:30 pm
Location: DUMFRIESSHIRE

Postby jerryg » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Each to their own. maybe I've got some of stonewallers eyes.

Did you know that our old measuring system came from the use of body parts?
User avatar
jerryg
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Lake District

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests