Speed

For discussing walling related subjects not included in other headings.

Speed

Postby AndyCocker » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:07 pm

I know this has been discussed at points elsewhere here, but maybe having it's own dedicated thread would be helpful to newcomers ie. me.

Obviously, as a beginner, I'm painfully slow at the moment, concentrating on learning to build correctly rather than just quickly, but I'd be interested in experienced waller's thoughts on just how much quality wall it's possible to consistently build in a single day.

I've heard anything from 3 to 7 yards per day (the 7 yards came from this link http://www.skiptonweb.co.uk/tourist/cragface_chron/03_drystonewalling/index.htm), and I wonder how this could be possible. Presently, I couldn't possibly imagine being able to do this.

I realise that how fast I become will depend totally on my capabilities, and will come with time, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts and find it an interesting topic for discussion.

Regards,
Andy
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Postby stonewaller » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:58 am

Could go on for hours on this one. How long is a piece of string, and what is a good standard. I`m a Master Craftsman, I reckon to average around 3-4 square metres of what I would regard as reasonably good farm wall a day. However what I regard as reasonably good would walk an intermediate certificate. What I regard as good would work out at around 2-3 square metres a day and would walk many walling competitions. But then I`m notoriously fussy.

Then there`s stone types. One type of local stone I wouldn`t even reckon on achieveing that.

HoweverI do not believe anyone building 7 meters a day can be doing that good a job. Its going to have one or all of poor hearting, lots of tracing, slack face, poor line and batter.

A couple of years ago I had to finish off a piece of previously stripped wall to finish off a piece of wall that had been part of an initial test. It was only a farm wall and I was in a hurry, I managed 6 meters in the day to a better standard noticeably better than most of the test pieces.
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Postby Tracey B » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:40 am

Hello Sean. With reference to the thread that evolved from the topic posted as 'Just an idea', I would be very interested to know your thoughts on whether a newly completed wall will settle and if so, by how much. I know, as ever, that there are many variable factors involved here but as a general overview? Thanks. Tracey
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daily amounts

Postby jerryg » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:48 am

I can say that my average for the whole of the last 5 years is 4.58 square metres per day. In an average year I work 205 days. On an average 1.4 metre high wall that's about 3.25 running metres.

As a self confessed dry stone walling fanatic, I, for my sins, have recorded in many different diaries every dry stone wall I've ever done. I have recorded length, height, time taken, and any notes as might be useful.

I find this useful, because as I have worked with so many different types of stone and in so many different places I can work out more or less exactly how long any job will take.

But the main reason is that when I am old and decrepit, (next week?) I will be able to look back and remember them all, and the stories and laughter/pain invariably associated with each one. It might all add up to just one chapter in a long and interesting book.
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Postby Jayt » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:31 pm

Thanks Andy, this is also something that I have wondered about. I have also just started walling and even two yards a day seems like a distant dream. Even when I have laboriously complete my one yard I can see faults, so two perfect yards would be heaven.
It is interesting to see what experienced wallers think about claims of 7 yards in a day, and it gives me, for one, hope that I am not THAT slow all things being even.
Regards JayT
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Stonewaller Master Craftsman02.12

Postby Rik » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:26 pm

YOU don't believe 7 metres could be done in a day. FINE, BUT!

Do you know the wall that you refer to? Have you ever seen it?
Did you know:
. How long was that working day?
. How easily workable the stone was?
. How the stone was laid out, and how reachable it was?
. Was there founds in place?

You state you can't manage 3 metres of certain type of stone!

But the comment, in my opinion:
"Its going to have one or all of poor hearting, lots of tracing, slack face, poor line and batter". IS A STATEMENT OF FACT, AND NOT AN OPINION!
WHICH Constitutes LIABLE, in my opinion, unless you have evidence to the contrary!
If indeed you are a Master Craftsman you should at least have the courtesy to check it out before shouting your mouth off.
I want you to prove your evidence, or make a full apology to the Master Craftsman concerned, and the members who read this forum for fun, and a sense of community, and not for the purposes of reading offensive remarks, and personal comments against fellow members, especially senior Master Craftsman!!!
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7 yards aday

Postby jerryg » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:31 pm

I seem to remember one of my old history books saying that in the olden days people used to work a 12 hour day. This didn't include the walk to work. They also used to say that dry stone wallers were expected to do about 7 yards a day for the princely sum of something like 1 old penny a yard.

I think perhaps that these wallers who say they do 7 yards a day are either living in the 1800's or not getting paid enough, or working too many hours, or building complete rubbish.
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Postby jerryg » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:35 pm

Hi Rik, it doesn't mention anywhere in the article mentioned who actually built this 7 yards a day.


From the article that Andy quotes: "A good waller can build about six or seven running yards of wall a day." and more importantly :"This means he moves about six or more tonnes of stone a day."


I got told in my youth as a waller that a yard of wall 4'6" high weighs roughly a ton.

Lets take an average wall of 4'6 high. Lets assume the wall is in a state where you have to take it down to it's footings, reset them and rebuild it back up again. That means to build 7 yards thats you are shifting 7 tons to take it down and sort it out and another 7 tons to put it back up again.

That means it's 14 tonnes a day if you are rebuilding 7 yards a day.

If however you go to work one day and take the wall down and sort the stone out and prepare the foundations therefore moving 7 tons, and next day you go back and put up the 7 yards, thereby shifting another 7 tons then in my book this means you are actually only building 3.5 yards a day.
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Postby jezza » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:02 pm

surly speed isn't every thing . If you try and make a tidy job the speed will come. yes Ive built 7 Yard gaps myself in a day . but just to get the job finished. couldn't and wouldn't do it every day. its a big day. I find that the day after you don't feel like doing very much. So try and stick to what i can do comfortably (field walls about 3.5 to 4 metres or 4.5 yards. )
The wall were doing at the minute is built with river stone. big round cobbles. horrible!!! But the next wall we have to do is in front of a stately home and its lovely stone nice blocky sand stone. But will probable do less per day with the good stone than we are with the cobbles. Nothing looks worse than good stone built badly. We priced the job on 5 metres per day for two Waller's 2.5 metres each
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Postby Tracey B » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:09 pm

Ha ha. LOL guys. There is nothing quite like the topic of how many yards a day to get you all going. I love it ....every time it comes round.
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Stonewaller RE: 02.12

Postby Rik » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:26 am

As the Chair of the branch of the Master Craftsman in question. Although I have not yet contacted the said member, I will at all times defend the integrity of any and all my members!

I'll give you seven days to provide your evidence to the contrary, or apology (deemed as sufficient by the Master Craftsman concerned), to the said Master Craftsman, via the medium of this forum. Bear in mind you choose this medium to make your comment.

Then I shall ask DSWA to remove the article if deemed offensive by any party, (I DEEM IT OFFENSIVE, and intend to continue to do so), furthermore, asking DSWA to be removing your right to continue posting, under the grounds of infringement of rule 1 in the forum's general rules!

If of course you have the Craftsman like courtesy you should have, you will apologise and the matter will be forgotten!
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speed

Postby Jayt » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:37 am

wow, this certainly seems to have stirred up a hornets nest, although theres nothing like having your work criticised for that effect.
I hope it gets resolved soon :wink:
Regards JayT
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Speed

Postby stonedyker@talk21.com » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:24 pm

sorry but I am getting lost here, who is Rik threatening?

Is it something to do with the link to the newspaper article?
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speed

Postby Jayt » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:28 pm

Good point Stonedyker, I hadn't realised that the "7 Yards" came from the article. In the article it doesnt say that Alan, the waller featured in the article, states any daily yardage at all. It seems to be an unattributed quote.
It is still a hornets nest though. :wink:
Regards JayT
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Postby jerryg » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Hi stone waller, it seems rik is accusing you of something, but quite what I can't fathom out. Maybe he didn't read the article concerned because it doesn't actually state who the "good waller" was who built this "6 or & yards a day"

I'd like Rik to answer my comment about the shifting of 7 tons a day results in 7 yards of wall of average height wall.

Oh by the way me and my work partner built 22 metres of wall one day last year. The wall was 2 courses high (1 foot high). Does that mean I can say I can build 11 metres of wall a day.

I think not.
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