MR ANGRY

For discussing walling related subjects not included in other headings.

MR ANGRY

Postby waller 69 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:20 pm

Has anyone here tried to take on an apprentice? It is the most frustrating waste of time i have exprienced in my entire life!!!! you would think after the recent problems in this country, taking someone off the dole and maybe giving them some future prospects would be a cake walk...this country is becoming a right dump, its alright im starting to calm down, look at it from my point of view, i have customers coming out of my hears, i require staff with how can i put it? unusual skills, the only way i can get them is train them, all i get is you only have to pay em £ 2.50 an hour( you know what happens when you pay peanuts) and they will sit nvq`s ( well i have the option of 100m of wall recently done by one of there instructors, to put right!!).Does anyone in the Cotswolds, who`s not work shy want a job????? More to the point, Where am i going wrong????
Last edited by waller 69 on Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
waller 69 aka Kev Blackwell
waller 69
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: cirencester glos

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby hankmeg1 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:01 pm

As a waller in Canada, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that here in Ontario we have a very decent apprenticeship program that I was unaware of for young stone masons. Now, it is run through the Ontario government and has strong ties to unions of which I am not a part of, and focuses primarily on mortared work.
My apprentice will receive three different two month sessions down the road of indoor training doing brick work, block and stone (all mortared). I do very little of this but will take on the occasional project to keep funds coming in.
We met with the apprenticeship director for our area and he informed us that Isaac will receive UI while in school, a tool allowance as well as either housing assistance or travel allowance as well as a 2000$ grant upon completion of the courses. During that time I can write off my taxes 45% of his income with me and I also will receive a flat out grant of 10,000$ per year for up to four years. I was shocked!!
The best part of all this was when he told Isaac and I that I was already overpaying him.....

Not all is great in Ontario but I was sure surprised of our efforts in this regard. Now I just have to keep bugging them to include dry stone walling techniques as part of their courses.

The sad part is that while Isaac attended a full one year masonry restoration program at Algonquin college, that was run by John Scott, they will not recognize his hours there as being up to their standard of training. This even after they were told that they would be....
hankmeg1
New member
New member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 11:56 pm

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby Nigel » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:41 am

If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys, that's for sure, what you want is somebody with some drive and the ability to get out of bed, these however, just in nature are the kind of people that will want to go on their own eventually and that is a risk you might have to consider.

As for editing or censoring your posts, I don't think that is something the mods here are going to do so I would not worry, I doubt the government will be around to arrest you for your feelings,I know this it has seriously wound you up though.

I have had some good and bad labourers with me over the years as well and I know what works well for me. As for repairing walls done by professionals, yes, I have a guy local to me that is apparently award winning! (the only award I would give is for the fastest a wall can fall down, 3 months in one case).

You are not alone.
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
User avatar
Nigel
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: South Cotswolds

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby Nigel » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:07 am

Just a thought Kev,

Are you looking to pass the trade down to the youth of today or are you after help with your work?

If you are looking to pass it on and get somebody up and running with a walling career, then I am not too sure how you attract the right person, perhaps the college down the road? If you are looking to get some help with your work, then how about a recently retired person? Just keep your ear to the ground and you will hear of somebody that wants some work.

Nige'

oh, and thanks btw :D :D
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
User avatar
Nigel
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: South Cotswolds

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby bricksetter » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:09 pm

Why not try this eager gentleman. :D

Eager beginner seeks work experience

Unread postby Darren_G_Waller » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:11 pm
Following a successful and enjoyable beginners walling course in the Peak District with the Derbyshire DSWA (13th-14th August 2011), I am looking for some full/part-time work with an experienced waller in the South West/Cotswolds to develop my walling technique/skills.

I am looking to develop a career in walling and plan to train for my DSWA levels 1&2 exams early 2012. I am 37 years old and based in Devizes, Wilts (willing to travel), so if you could do with some help from a strong and enthusiastic 37 year old I look forward to hearing from you.

All the best

Darren Goddard
T. 01380 728238
bricksetter
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby waller 69 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:02 pm

Nige, you are welcome, you made a fair point so...as for your question, both, i would like to pass on the old skills and get help with my work, it may have been easier if i just did walling but i do many many other things as well so, really need a blank canvass to start with, with the right attitude....hi ya bricksetter, pm`d Darren but heard nout so.....thanks for the lead anyway :) :)
waller 69 aka Kev Blackwell
waller 69
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: cirencester glos

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby J_Scott » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:41 pm

This reply is for HANKMEG1 who wrote about apprentices in Canada back in August.

Greetings Canadian Waller Hankmeg1. John Scott here from Algonquin College, Perth, Ontario. Sorry I did not reply to this sooner but I was just made aware of it today and was not registered on this site. The apprenticeship program in Ontario is designed around a union/bricklayer concept but does apply to the Algonquin program as well. The "level of training" you mention refers to the intensity that is focussed on brick and block production (our program does not focus on production, but rather, on additional areas not covered by union training, such as stonecutting, geometry, architectural history, stonemasonry, conservation repairs, traditional mortars, etc... this qualifies the candidate to apprentice at projects such as parliament, queens' park, etc). Throughout the Program we discuss the best way to approach apprenticeship from a number of perspectives. Basically, the Ontario government (Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities) will accept the applicant (assuming they successfully complete the Program) into the second level of apprenticeship, although they have the right to ask the applicant to perform a competency test. If a student performs very well in the Program, the ministry might accept them into level three, following some clarification processes. However, the Ministry does not recognize the entire accumulation of hours spent at the college, but does recognize 300-350 hours as contributed time spent building (towards the required 5600 hours over four years). Now, while each area Ministry office should share this same policy, students are encouraged to apply through the Eastern Ontario offices as they are most familiar with this agreement. This, too, is discussed in length during our Program. If you approach the union office directly, they will likely insist you begin THEIR training from day one. This is the unfortunate bureaucracy of this business. Again, this was discussed in the program.

Now, it is also important to know that your business must be registered with the Ontario Masonry Contractors Association to qualify for this and your company must employ ONE full time licensed mason (called Brick and Stone Mason in Ontario) for your first apprentice and five additional licensed masons for your second apprentice. The grant money helps offset the cost of those guys and the required tools. Basically they want to know that your company is going to invest the time to give them supervised experience in all areas of masonry, from blocks and panels to bricks and repairs. In the end, the province considers dry stone work as a tiny component of stonemasonry, and stonemasonry makes up less than ten percent of the expertise of a average union mason in Ontario. (as a stonemason, restoration mason and waller, I disagree with the latter statement, but I am not the Ontario government!). Now, as I stated earlier, there are ways to approach this that work for wallers. If you want to know more information, please contact me (also have your apprentice contact me!) at scottj@algonquincollege.com. I can also hook you up with contractors who have successfully employed apprentices who came through this Program. I am also keen to learn of your projects in Ontario.
Thank you,
John Scott.
J_Scott
New member
New member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: MR ANGRY

Postby Stoneinspired » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:01 am

I've thought about taking on a apprentice too but the obstacles seem to be too great. I can't afford to spend the time teaching someone to learn a craft. I could be working myself and earning instead.
Stoneinspired
Active Subscriber
Active Subscriber
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:17 pm
Location: Scotland


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests