Permian Limestone

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Permian Limestone

Postby davjac » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:47 pm

Hello,

Don't often post on the forum (thankfully busy), but still enjoy reading through it.

Can any other wallers/forum users help with a problem im trying to resolve.

An up coming Walling contract I have in County Durham, the Landscape Architect has stated in the specification that..... 'Drystone Walls are to be constructed from local Permian Limestone' I must add that the walls are just a part of a larger landscaping/reclamation project, which all has 'strict' guidelines.

We have several Permian Limestone quarries in East County Durham, I spoke to the manager of the largest of these quarries yesterday. He confirmed what I had thought......that the stone produced from these quarries was totally unsuitable as walling stone (vast majority breaks down into dolomite).

So....has anyone ever built a wall with Permian Limestone? If so where did the stone come from, if known?

After a lot of reasearch, I can find no local working quarries producing Permian Limestone suitable for walling, so the 'local stone' bit of the specification appears to be straight out of the window. I have built with Carboniferous Limestone on the Durham/N. Yorkshire borders, but this is obviously completely different from what is required.

Any advice or observations are very welcome. Thanks in advance.

Dave
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Re: Permian Limestone

Postby waller 69 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:56 pm

Dave, I have no idea about the stone you mentioned but I have dealt with "landscape experts" I take it thats what you mean ? they tend to get there big words from books...have a look at the dimensions they require cus they usually get that wrong as well....I can however help with walling with really naff stone if you really need
any, we have a lot of stone here that turns to dust if you get it wrong.....
Kev
ps don't know what the pc is doing now , but my typing looks worse than ever :shock:
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Re: Permian Limestone

Postby davjac » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Kev,

Thanks for the reply......goodness knows Ive walled with stone that can only be described as rubble, but this stuff just isnt 'fit for purpose' as is the popular saying these days, especially as the wall sections are going to be in an area of high public access. Its not 'the look' its just that you cant build a wall that is structurally sound with it. I can hear H&S ringing in my ears already!!!

Nowt wrong with your typing by the way! But my eyesight aint what it used to be :lol:
Dave
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Re: Permian Limestone

Postby jerryg » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Don't know whether it helps but I found this:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/speel/tech/buildmat.htm

Common building stones
Portland Limestone is the common white, often fossiliferous, stone used across England for public buildings, e.g. most of Whitehall. Equally popular is the Bath Stone, an orangeish sandstone of great beauty. A more highly coloured reddish sandstone is the Permian sandstone, which often weathers to give a deeply pitted and honeycombed appearance, for example on the walls of embankments on seaside towns. The equivalent old dark limestone is the Permian Limestone, typically almost black with white quartz veins, and very hard but polishing with wear - much of Victorian Weston-Super-Mare is made from such stone.

However, tootling around the various websites that mention this stuff seem to mention lots of closed quarries and nothing in the way of building stone, just the crushed stuff around derbyshire. I suggest you ask the 'expert' where he intends to get the stone from.

If the project is a restoration job then there must be some of the stuff lying around on site?, if so find a lump or two and see if another quarry can match it with something similar but different. We did a job 23 years ago that asked for a certain coluored type of slate, which was available nowhere but they did sell a similar coloured stone at a Cumbrian quarry and we used that instead.
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Re: Permian Limestone

Postby davjac » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:26 am

Hello Jerry,

Thanks for the reply........have read through your link and everything you mention. Have learned a few things I didnt know as well, and have taken a few things on board.

I researched as well and came up empty handed, lots of closed quarries and of the ones in operation, non supplying Permian Limestone suitable for walling.

The 'project' is new and no drystone walls have ever been there. Infact in this part of County Durham there are very few walls, its hedgerow country. As the project is titled 'Limestone Landscapes' with an insistance on only locally sourced materials, compromises by the 'expert' seem inevitable. As mentioned the quarries in the East of the County produce stone only suitable for dolomite.

It makes me look like a'party pooper' so to speak, as its not until the waller was brought on board (me) that any of this has come to light. I can only assume that the 'expert' didnt take into account the fact that the local stone insisted upon, isnt suitable to build walls with.

Thanks again,
Dave
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