cscs?

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cscs?

Postby donald » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:33 pm

cscs? what is happening?
Last edited by donald on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cscs?

Postby jerryg » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:51 am

i
Last edited by jerryg on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cscs?

Postby alan devonport » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:42 pm

Jerry,

That is not exactly true...

I am a 'proper' dry stone waller, but due to sometimes building walls for building contractors, I have had to sit the Health & Safety aspect of the course.

Hope this hellps clarify a few issues.

Alan.
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Re: cscs?

Postby stonewaller » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:43 pm

Yep,
You cannot escape health and safety, and to date I have rarely found it as officious as you might think,and once you have some sort of system set up its quite easy to satisfy most people.

Sadly most officials don't seem to understand the system and are just covering their and thus backs making it OTT. Generally most of us legally only need to have 'considered' it. Only problem is if something does go wrong you have to prove you considered it and took appropriate actions. Hence the paper chase and officialdom. In my experience a simple file containing a H&S Policy (pointless wordism) a general generic walling risk/action list, site specific list, and the H&S Chapter reproduced from "DSW" has done the trick.
Baffle them with science and lots of bits of paper, chances are they only want to tick a box.

Meanwhile people (sado masochist especially) might also want to look at http://www.chas.gov.uk/

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Re: cscs?

Postby alan devonport » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:53 pm

Sean,

Are you CHAS registered as I'm in the process of filling in the paperwork myself.

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Re: cscs?

Postby stonewaller » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:10 pm

Good question!!

Theoretically, but not sure practically. Local council sent me on a seminar/course, I'm confused as to whether I completed it or not (I thought I had, but haven't subsequently heard much) haven't had a renewal notice so wonder if I ever was. Keep meaning to check up but always seem to have something better to do... As with all these things process was eessentially a paper chase and those around me had far less idea of what was going on than I did. All quite worrying really.

if you have any specific questions give me a call, I'll try to find the file, wherever I buried it
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Re: cscs?

Postby david perry » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:03 pm

I thought you only need a written H&S if you have four or more employees?
I just like stone!!

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Re: cscs?

Postby alan devonport » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:39 pm

David,

The CHAS Scheme has two levels, the first for less than 5 employees, and the second for more than five. You are starting to need this more and more by various organisations.

Hope this helps.

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Re: cscs?

Postby jerryg » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:03 pm

so I take it as I am a Sole Trader it doesn't apply to me?
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Re: cscs?

Postby alan devonport » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:46 pm

Jerry,

I'm afraid not. If you work on a construction site, you may still need it.

Check out the website above.

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Re: cscs?

Postby donald » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:24 pm

Nearest trade description seems to be cornish hedger or masons operative, the other heritage trades are working on accreditation for lime mortars, brick / masonry restoration,etc so why should'nt drystone walling be accredited too, if only for a sense of pride in the profession?

This has nothing to do with construction industry masons having nothing to do with anyone, many wallers work in the construction industry, Gerry makes his own personal choice, if he wants to hide down the bottom of a field away from the world, thats his affair and thats probably the main incentive he has for walling, and many others similarly, but dont force that blinkered thinking that "proper" wallers don't work in the construction side.

There are wallers who do one or the other, a growing number do both, and many never go back to "proper farm walling".
Usually on a construction site there is a chance to take a pride in the quality of your work, not be doing donkeywork for meterage.

Proper waller, indeed...jeees.....

back to the real world......
Surely an accredited cscs card for walling would be far better than having to say you're something else to bend the rules, why aren't DSWA mcm or members onto this,as part of continuous professional development, for DSWA and its members, and no, the excuse that DSWA is "amateur" is pretty poor thinking.

Its usually those that hide behind the "amateur" tag who like to have control but then do nothing.

Unless registered with the cscs scheme, in 2010 you will no longer be allowed onto a construction site.

Who wants to do something?

Donald
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Re: cscs?

Postby alan devonport » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:43 pm

Donald,

Surely as you are one of the Elected Members on the Management Committee, it is your duty to promote this sort of subject. So I think that you should bring it up, as it potentially could apply to almost every waller.

As we occasionally speak on the telephone, you tend know my thoughts on this sort of thing,.

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Re: cscs?

Postby donald » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:14 pm

I brought this up at the Management Comittee Meeting, no-one knew what I was talking about and therefore cscs was seen as irrelevant,same with National Occupational Standards, I laid all the paperwork out on the table at dinner and only 4 or 5 out of...28? looked at it.
You can take a horse.....
Then when changes occur to standards, guidelines etc, working wallers look to DSWA to act, and when this doesnt happen DSWA is seen as incompetent or not doing anything for "real" wallers, some of whom are most verbose on this site without having the common decency to join DSWA, while using this board rather a lot.
HUMPH.
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Re: cscs?

Postby donald » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:34 pm

There is a post on this site by Gerry, which I replied to which is no longer present?
I will re- reply...

Gerry , sorry but without others seeing your reply I cannot comment besides, yes there are various options to walling, whatever path you choose to tread.
I train lots of wallers who have come from various bacgrounds they have a partial private income and do not need to rely on their total income from walling.
That is not a bad thing.
What I do disagree with is young wallers being trained by government bodies who fail to accept that dsw in upland areas is unsustainable.
It is the grant rate that needs to be addressed, not the need.
Quality needs to be controlled, by the grant bodies, deliverers, NP etc and Craft skills DSWA.
DSWA in particular is failing to address the need for applying their craft certification system and is completely ignoring the delivery levels of the instructors, having lowered the Lantra Awards level for delivering instruction from L2 Instructor to L1 without MCM knowing.(Minutes) There is not an accrediting authority in uk that allows Level 2 craftsmen to deliver Level2 Courese for tests, whether NVQ, which DSWA/ Lantra Awards are NOT or VRQ 's which they are,


A few years ago I was a mythical worker in a dying art (not) getting annoyed with some "land based grant recievers" so complained to the proper authority, the grant which was then 60% was not being paid to the mythical worker.of the mythical trade, so I complained,The grants were then changed nothing to do with me " therefore all payments shall be £16 CONTRIBUTION not PERCENTAGE and shall be the arranged sum between the alleged grant recievee and contracting worker" not £14.50 as part of %60 grant.
You have a managerial bacground, why not get the farm walling grants sorted out, we need people like you to sort it, ? lots of others want this sorted too.

Donald
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Re: cscs?

Postby jerryg » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:35 am

The point I made earlier about proper wallers not being recognised by the cscs is that to register you have to declare yourself as anything other than being a dswer as the only walling mentioned on the site is something to do with glass :!:
I was not being upity about wallers of any standard anywhere :|

Walling grants have been dropping for years, it last went up in our area in 2001 to £20 m. It is just dropping again at the moment because the ESA's seem to be coming to an end to be replaced by Countryside stewartships which from what I can understand have an even lower metre grant rate. Some of the farmers won't pay over the grant rate and are going back to the good old practice of sticking iron bedspreads and wooden pallets in holes. There seems to be no pressure from DEFRA for farmers to keep walls up anymore.
Luckily for me and Vanessa we have enough farmers and landowners who appreciate a well built wall and will pay over the grant rate to keep their walls up.

In this recession we are having I am still being contacted by people looking for work, which wasn't the case a couple of years ago when people rang me up for help cos they had too much to do.

I know I'll probably get shot at for saying this but haven't we got to the point where there are enough wallers now and the Government would be better putting their money (not that they've got any) not into traing but into increasing the grants so that those that do exist can continue to do so.
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